J: Since we are speaking of what one has or has not to do, perhaps we should speak about the difference between the idea of Karma ruling our lives, and the sufi idea of baraka–what I see as a fluid state of grace.
S: Yes. in the state of enlightenment, Karma disappears. Not only for you but the people around you, for anyone that you may think of. “Karma” is the spiritual equivalent for the old scientific theory of cause and effect. This is Newton’s theory. Newton is out now. The new physicist says that there is no such thing as cause and effect. And so it is for the spiritual world. . Karma is a concept which is useful to explain certain things about the space in which you live. This doesn’t mean that you should believe it. It may be good to say “I mustn’t do that because it will have such and such an effect”, but it is also important to understand that there is a definite field to which you are applying the law, and it is not true of the universe as a whole. And also to know that the spiritual path will arrive at a place where you are beyond that…

J: Then some people need it for a time?
S: Perhaps, but you can’t tell a person that he needs it. It is all up to whether they feel that they need it. This then, is his choice…

J: And beyond that feeling…?
S: That is where you can change yourself from a sinner to a saint in one second if you wish, or change the world.

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